Right down to Enterprise: Ambassador Burns on Navigating the World’s Most Vital Bilateral Relationship

AmCham China Interview with Ambassador Burns

(December 3, 2022 – LINK)

 

In early March 2022, the brand new US Ambassador to the Individuals’s Republic of China, Nicholas Burns, touched down in Beijing. Within the practically 9 months since his arrival, Ambassador Burns has hit the bottom operating, working tirelessly for US pursuits in China by engagements with each authorities and enterprise leaders. Shortly earlier than China’s twentieth Occasion Congress, AmCham China President Michael Hart sat down with Ambassador Burns for a frank and wide-ranging dialogue on the state of US-China relations. After the Occasion Congress and the Biden-Xi assembly in Bali, we caught up once more with Ambassador Burns to ask some follow-up questions.

 

Nicholas Burns is Ambassador of the US of America to the Individuals’s Republic of China (PRC). Nominated by President Biden, he was confirmed by the US Senate in December 2021. As Ambassador, he leads a staff of skilled, devoted, and various public servants from 47 US authorities companies and sub-agencies on the US Mission in China, together with on the Embassy in Beijing and on the American Consulates in Shanghai, Guangzhou, Wuhan, and Shenyang. He oversees the Mission’s interplay with the PRC on the total vary of political, safety, financial, industrial, consular, and plenty of different points.

Ambassador Burns has had a protracted profession in American diplomacy serving six Presidents and 9 Secretaries of State, together with as Nationwide Safety Council Director after which Senior Director for Soviet Affairs and, later, Russia/Ukraine (1990-1995), State Division Spokesperson (1995-1997), Ambassador to Greece (1997-2001), Ambassador to NATO (2001-2005), Underneath Secretary of State for Political Affairs (2005-2008), and as a member of the International Coverage Advisory Board of Secretary of State John Kerry (2014-2017). Ambassador Burns has obtained 15 honorary levels, the Presidential Distinguished Service Award, and the Secretary of State’s Distinguished Service Award. He’s a graduate of Boston Faculty (BA Historical past, 1978) and the Johns Hopkins College of Superior Worldwide Research (MA Worldwide Relations, 1980).

 

Michael Hart: Let’s begin together with your worldwide expertise. How has your expertise as US Ambassador right here been knowledgeable by different postings that you simply’ve had in your profession with the State Division or in any other case? How are [those experiences] serving to you particularly right here?

 

Ambassador Burns: Initially, let me simply say thanks for the nice engagement that we’ve got with the American Chamber. You’re very important for us and… our financial industrial relationship is on the middle of our relationship. We actually worth the dialogue with you and likewise with all of the members.

 

This can be a distinctive place to be American Ambassador in China right now, given the complexities in our relationship. When President Biden known as me to ask me to take the job, after all I accepted, as a result of, as a profession diplomat… I feel it’s one of many nice challenges that we face around the globe nowadays. We have now a really giant and really competent Mission right here stuffed with people who find themselves specialists on each side of the connection. So I take it as my job to assist folks in our Mission succeed, to be engaged on the problems which might be essential to the way forward for our nation, equivalent to our very aggressive relationship, the navy competitors between us within the Indo-Pacific, and the build up of our crucial alliances with Japan, South Korea, Australia; our protection alliances and treaty agreements with the Philippines and Thailand; our strategic relationship with India.

 

We clearly are centered on know-how, and the competitors between us within the digital realm, from AI to machine studying to quantum sciences to biotech. We’re centered on economics and commerce. That’s actually elementary to us. Can we assist to create right here a degree taking part in area for American companies, realizing that, if we are able to try this, American enterprise can succeed right here? You’ve demonstrated that with greater than 1,100 corporations current right here, with 1000’s extra based mostly within the US buying and selling, importing, and exporting with the Chinese language. It’s a essential relationship for us, value $718 billion in two-way commerce final 12 months.

 

“I consider competitors on many alternative main points will proceed to be a major factor in our relationship. We additionally consider this competitors mustn’t veer into battle and that the US and China should handle the competitors responsibly.”

 

Michael Hart: One of many wake-up requires the American enterprise neighborhood in Shanghai was provide chains. Individuals didn’t essentially notice what number of issues had been operating by Shanghai. Now, because the Biden Administration continues to roll out plans for sustainable provide chains, China is asking itself, the place do they slot in within the international provide chain? I’ve additionally had folks ask me if US corporations are “anti-China” and I say no, persons are simply seeking to rebuild their provide chains. So, the query is, the place does China slot in within the international provide chain? Is it sensible for China to be a precedence marketplace for the US and multinational corporations by way of provide chain? How do you see that?

 

Ambassador Burns: To a sure extent, what we’ve realized from practically three years now of the worldwide pandemic is the over reliance that a few of us have had on provide chains from China in essential supplies, essential for the functioning of our financial system or for the economic enterprises of our best industries. So I feel there’s been a significant motion to attempt to make it possible for we management our personal [supply chains] in sure industries, [so] we’ve got higher entry and extra reliability about provide chains. This isn’t only a lesson that we’ve realized; the Europeans [and] Japanese have realized this. You’ve seen motion around the globe to make it possible for, in a disaster, you management your future, and also you management your personal destiny, so your financial system can proceed to carry out at a excessive degree, and also you’re not on the mercy of an autocratic energy which may deny you essential supplies. So, that’s a lesson we’ve realized, and also you’ve heard our President, different senior members of our authorities and plenty of members of the enterprise neighborhood speak about that.

 

One of many motivations for the CHIPS [Creating Helpful Incentives to Produce Semiconductors] and Science Act is to make it possible for we’re not solely aggressive in semiconductors, however that we even have fabs in the US which might be world class. In order that in a disaster, semiconductors – that are the constructing blocks of every little thing in a twenty first century financial system – are nearer to house. The Chinese language, I feel in a manner, have additionally realized that lesson, as I take a look at what the federal government right here is attempting to do. They’re attempting to change provide chains, they’re attempting to insulate themselves, hypothetically, from stress from the remainder of the world sooner or later.

 

I usually get requested about decoupling, however it’s not a phrase that we’ve used. I all the time say in my talks with the enterprise neighborhood, we’re not actively in search of to decouple two economies which have come collectively over 45 years, a $718 billion two-way commerce relationship yearly, with 1000’s, tens of 1000’s of corporations interacting with one another. If both aspect is starting to decouple, it’s extra China than the US. They’ve talked about it extra – they don’t use the phrase – however that’s actually what they’re signaling in some respects, and so they’ve been taking actions far longer than we’ve got.

 

Clearly, you recognize there are two areas I’d spotlight right here. One is CFIUS, the Committee on International Funding in the US. We now, for 20 years, have been screening international funding alternatives in the US in these areas which might be essential to our nationwide safety. We have now a proper to do this, and it’s been very profitable. The President simply signed an Govt Order that sharpens the instruments that CFIUS has to do this.

 

Second, on the opposite finish of the spectrum, my very own recommendation after I discuss to American companies right here is, we would like you to succeed, we all know that the majority American corporations… wish to keep right here. [Many] corporations could also be hesitating on future investments due to uncertainty over China’s financial coverage. However my very own recommendation to corporations as Ambassador is steer clear of investments in China that will help the expansion and growth of China’s navy industrial sector. We don’t need our nationwide safety pursuits diminished and affected by American investments to assist the Chinese language compete with us in areas which might be core to our nationwide safety. These are crucial areas for companies to consider in a accountable manner.

 

 

Michael Hart: I dialed into a kind of calls you probably did to assist educate us. That additionally helps to reply a query we had round what’s the US Embassy doing to assist US corporations perceive new guidelines popping out which might be particular to China. I feel you’ve coated that fairly nicely. One other problem is flights. Flights between China and the US are at historic lows. What are your ideas on how this impacts the US-China relationship? Is there something you recognize of with the Division of Transportation and what they’re attempting to do to get flights transferring ahead, or the challenges that they’re coping with in attempting to get these flights between the US and China going?

 

Ambassador Burns: This has been a significant problem and a significant frustration, frankly. Each nation has a proper to design its personal anti-COVID measures. However in addition they have an obligation to respect our personal bilateral agreements. On this case, we’re very pissed off by the truth that there are so few flights by our three large carriers – Delta, American, and United – into the most important Chinese language cities. This harms enterprise, it harms People who wish to examine right here, who can’t get right here simply, it harms all of us who work right here formally and attempt to are available in and are available out.

 

The very fact is that the Individuals’s Republic of China has not met a lot of their obligations to us and to our air transport agreements. And so, the Division of Transportation in Washington has been compelled – on a reciprocal foundation – to impose limits on Chinese language airways as a result of our airways are being put at a drawback. And I actually hope – maybe we’ll see this later within the autumn, I hope following the twentieth Occasion Congress – that we’ll see extra flexibility on the Chinese language aspect, and we’ll see them adhering to the letter of our bilateral agreements. As a result of air transportation is key to the functioning of a contemporary financial system and trendy society. It is rather troublesome to get into this nation; it’s troublesome to get out of this nation.

 

Michael Hart: You’re proper, transportation is a key. As we’ve got tried to elucidate to anyone who will pay attention that, if you happen to can’t have flights out and in, then you definately gained’t have new international direct funding (FDI), as a result of folks gained’t have the ability to are available in and approve tasks. There’s beginning to be some realization of that because the FDI numbers fall.

 

Ambassador Burns: I’ve heard businesspeople inform me, and these are senior American businesspeople representing main American companies, “How can we plan a significant funding right here if my CEO or Chairman, if she or he can’t come right here, kick the tires, be on the bottom, and discuss to Chinese language officers?” And till that occurs, we’re not going to see – and we haven’t seen – substantial new funding by American, European, or Japanese companies right here throughout the board. That’s one of many the reason why.

 

 

Michael Hart: I fully agree. You guys on the US Mission have fully opened visa companies for Chinese language nationals, that’s one other space the place China has not absolutely reciprocated. This has had a critical influence on the enterprise neighborhood. Typically I don’t assume the Chinese language public is aware of fully that US visa companies are open, simply by rumors or since you don’t see as many lengthy strains out entrance anymore. What are your views by way of how you could have ready to reopen and permit of us to get visas to the US?

 

Ambassador Burns: That is one other instance the place, in implementing dynamic zero-COVID, the Chinese language authorities has put People at an infinite drawback, and different international populations as nicely. We predict we’ve got about 290,000 Chinese language college students in the US. America stays the main vacation spot for Chinese language college students. We simply had a significant truthful right here two weeks in the past on the Embassy on a Saturday for Chinese language college students and their mother and father to familiarize themselves with the visa course of, and likewise, most significantly, instructional alternatives in the US. Our doorways are open to Chinese language college students. We would like Chinese language college students to review in our nation.

It’s been extraordinarily troublesome, nevertheless, for American college students to get visas; the doorways have been closed. We predict we solely have max 400 American college students in China proper now, versus the 290,000 Chinese language college students in the US. And it’s in our curiosity to have younger People come right here to study Mandarin, to study in regards to the tradition and historical past of this extraordinary nation that we’re all dwelling in, and perhaps to be the following Michael Hart, or the following individual main one in every of our main American corporations right here, or to be an American diplomat right here. However they want that have, and so they’re not getting it and the doorways haven’t been opened. And once more, right here’s one other instance of virtually a double customary, the place our doorways are clearly open. I went all the way down to the Consular Part this summer season to see the visa course of in operation, we had a lot of officers working there. It’s been troublesome to get American college students in right here, troublesome to get the visas, and it’s troublesome to journey right here. After which there are all types of restrictions that the scholars [in China] are locked down of their campuses and may’t have a standard pupil expertise. So, I do assume it’s incumbent upon the authorities right here to be extra versatile, to open up people-to-people contacts.

 

Michael Hart: I additionally wish to ask about social media. I do know you’re very lively on social media from posting about insurance policies and human rights to high-speed trains and baseball. Inform us in regards to the significance of social media and the way you’re attempting to make use of it – each inside and out of doors of China.

 

Ambassador Burns: It’s a robust instrument, and it’s a crucial one. The Biden administration encourages all the Embassies to participate within the worldwide debate… We have now an embassy Weibo account, we’ve got WeChat accounts, we’ve got a Twitter account of 1.2 million followers, I’ve my very own separate Twitter account. What we’re attempting to do right here is converse to the Chinese language folks and provides them correct details about us. We attempt to give the Chinese language folks an correct portrayal of who we’re as a rustic, what we consider in, and proper primary misstatements by their very own authorities about us.

 

There’s a robust censorship physique right here. When Secretary Blinken gave his large speech on the US-China relationship, the most important speech of this administration, it was censored on WeChat and Weibo inside two hours. We put it again up a few days later and it was censored inside 20 minutes. However in that two-hour span, and in that 20-minute span, you will get lots of people taking a look at it. We consider in freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and we predict that folks have a proper to free and correct info. That’s our purpose, and to indicate respect to the folks of China, respect for his or her tradition, and their civilization, their historical past.

 

There are occasions we use our social media presence to debate the federal government right here, to right misstatements by the federal government, to criticize. So, I feel we’re by no means going to reside in a world the place social media shouldn’t be a presence.

 

Questions Submit Occasion Congress and G20 Biden-Xi Assembly

 

What do you see as the most important takeaways for US enterprise from the twentieth Occasion Congress? Are you optimistic in regards to the future trajectory?

 

Ambassador Burns: On the twentieth Occasion Congress, we acknowledge that essential modifications are occurring within the PRC, and we’re paying shut consideration. It is going to take time to see how these modifications are translated into personnel and coverage. One of many major points that arises from the twentieth Occasion Congress is whether or not China will transfer in a extra statist path on financial coverage. I’ve heard from many within the US enterprise neighborhood questions in regards to the PRC’s future financial coverage within the 12 months forward.

 

The 2 Presidents met in Bali. Is that face-to-face assembly in itself a motive to rejoice and do you assume it’s the beginning of a brand new bilateral footing?

 

Ambassador Burns: I used to be with President Biden for the Bali assembly with President Xi Jinping. It was a candid assembly the place the 2 leaders spoke about their respective priorities and exchanged views on crucial regional and international challenges. President Biden was clear that we are going to compete with the PRC on the various points the place we’ve got disagreements. On Taiwan, the President differed strongly with the PRC’s aggressive actions which undermine peace within the Taiwan Strait. President Biden raised US considerations about China’s non-market financial practices. It was essential that our two leaders met face-to-face. The assembly was aimed toward constructing a flooring within the relationship and managing the competitors responsibly. From our perspective, the assembly did permit us to take some steps in that path. As President Biden mentioned after the assembly, the 2 leaders had been blunt with each other about locations the place we disagreed. I consider competitors on many alternative main points will proceed to be a major factor in our relationship. We additionally consider this competitors mustn’t veer into battle and that the US and China should handle the competitors responsibly.

 

We’ve heard quite a bit about competitors between the 2 sides, however the place do you see the biggest areas for US-China engagement and cooperation?

 

Ambassador Burns: China and the US have a joint curiosity in addition to a worldwide accountability, to work collectively on transnational challenges – equivalent to local weather change, international macroeconomic stability together with debt reduction, well being safety, and international meals safety. At their assembly, President Biden and President Xi agreed to empower key senior officers to take care of communication on these and different points. The 2 leaders additionally agreed that Secretary of State Blinken will go to China early in 2023 to comply with up on their discussions. Our message to the PRC is: let’s transfer ahead when it’s in our curiosity to take action. However on the similar time, the US may also proceed to boost our sturdy human rights considerations about Xinjiang, Tibet, Hong Kong, and different points. We’re going to proceed to compete with the PRC to create a degree taking part in area for US companies right here, however we additionally consider this competitors mustn’t veer into battle and that the US and China should handle the competitors successfully and preserve a peaceable relationship.

 

This text has been edited from the unique transcript for size and readability. The interview befell in early October, previous to the assembly between President Biden and President Xi on the G20 in Bali, Indonesia. The follow-up questions had been answered in late November following the twentieth Occasion Congress and G20 assembly.